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Phil H's avatar

I think I also reject the premise, but for a different reason from Kenny. I just think that there is no reason to think that my importance has anything to do with things a long way away from me, in distance or in time. The fact that I can't affect things happening in Brazil doesn't make me less valid.

So, for example, there are probably a few hundred/thousand people in China whose actions can affect Brazil, and on some level those people are "more important" than me. One obvious such person would be President Xi, and there are lots of senses in which he is a bigger/more important person than I am. But we have lots of ways of thinking about people that also makes me his equal. I'm quite comfortable believing that I have equal worth as a human being; I'm equal in the eyes of most Chinese law (I'm a permanent resident, not a citizen, so there are some differences). I have social and emotional authority within my own family that Xi does not have...

Similarly, the fact that I can't affect people in the past or the far future doesn't trouble me much. I would only be troubled by it if I had the arrogance to declare "look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair" or "so long as men have breath...so long lives this".

But most of our teloses (teloi?) are bounded. I'm engaging in some homeschooling at this very moment [sidenote: my sons are both displaying an interest in philosophy, and you can take a chunk of credit for that! Older son was attracted by the title of Jerks, and is working his way through it. Thank you!], and this activity is telic, but bounded - quite sharply - by my son's autonomy: I expect to give him the best intellectual start to life that I can, but I aspire to take only a very limited role in the direction of his life once he's an adult, because I want him to be in control of his own decisions. That is to say, this telos is self-limiting.

I think there are lots of factors like that. Something doesn't have to be eternally worth it to be worth it. In the intellectual sphere, you can have a bounded goal of fully working out a theory X (think Ptolemaic geocentrism). Geocentrism was swept away, and all of the work that went into those epicycles was meaningless. And yet I still think the project had value, in part because it laid the foundations for the proofs that geocentrism doesn't work. Seeing as most science is going to prove to be wrong in the long run, that same logic will end up applying across the board, I imagine.

This is perhaps a slightly different idea to sandcastles, because the digging of a sandcastle is a pleasure in itself (I think I regard sandcastles as more atelic than telic, though I recognise the telic element to the process). I just think that there are lots of goals which can be worthy objectives, while still being non-eternal. And that can still be true even if the process contains no atelic pleasures at all.

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Kenny Easwaran's avatar

“ in a thousand years it will (probably) be as though you had never lived”

This premise seems quite wrong! Even just the butterfly flapping its wings isn’t ineffective on the weather thousands of miles away! In a thousand years, my life will have had impacts and echoes and chaotic interventions in almost everything anywhere near earth (and perhaps quite a bit farther).

Now it’s true that in a thousand years, it will likely be very difficult to look at all those effects and infer what my life must have been like, or how any of those things depended on my life. But I don’t see why that takes away from their meaning.

I especially don't see why this should take meaning away from telic acts like the civil rights movement, since those are likely to have some stable effects for a very long part of that time.

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